White Center Now: The blog about White Center

I just heard about 20 gunshots on 116th S. and Occidental S.
I called the King County Sheriff, and they confirmed that it was gunshots. Other than that, I don’t know who fired the shots. They were about a half a block from where I live.

Marlene, me too. There is a gun range at the bottom of the hill kinda in the valley, maybe the echos came from there.

Mr. Lamphear and Heid:

I would have to say that your statements are also personal opinions, as you are not offering factual evidence. Can we look at each of Mr. Feinburg’s statements, and see if you can show undisputed evidence?

#1 – Is there documented proof that Burien will not attempt to annex the rest of NH if this annexation passes?

#2 – Can you offer direct evidence that property value is not affected by being within incorporated city limits?

#3 – Have any studies been done to indicate that customer satisfaction is or is not directly related to response times?

#4 – Is there proof that Area 1 does have adequate police protection? Also, is there any direct evidence that Burien will or will not hire additional police officers? Or that there will or will not be a need for additional officers?

#5 – What evidence do you have that Burien will NOT undergo a financial crisis in the future?

#6 – Can you show that Burien is not looking for increased tax revenues by expanding its tax base?

#7 – Please point to where there is evidence that there is or is not a fire department tax for Town Square.

#8 – This seems to be the same as #3, so I’ll let you off here.

Each side can say the other person is just spouting personal opinion, because nobody is showing documented evidence. I read Mr. Feinburg’s statements as opinions. I also read your statements as opinions. That’s fine with me – opinions do count, of course. But I would love to see some factual evidence behind any of this!

In short – my thoughts are that your statement of “…personal opinion being passed as facts” is simply not true. I don’t see anywhere that Mr. Feinburg is stating that these are indisputable facts. They are his opinions. And isn’t it acceptable to be able to state your opinions?

And Heid, I believe that the pile #’s came directly from Mr. Lamphear’s published comments from a few days ago on this site. I would highly doubt that the City of Seattle would have these listed on their web site.

Referring to lists given by Feinberg and Lady K.
#1. It is well known that if the current annexation vote passes, and Burien continues to receive interest from residents of NH wanting to annex into Burien (considering it a far better choice than the only other real alternative, annexation to Seattle), a majority of the City Council favors moving forward on an annexation election for the rest of NH.
#2. Westwood Village has been inside the Seattle City limits the entire time it has existed. You know that it is essentially impossible to prove a negative. What you don’t have is any proof that merely being inside the Seattle city limits, or having a Seattle address makes any difference at all in property values. The fact is that NH has a Seattle address. Does that make houses in White Center more valuable. Burien, Seatac, parts of Des Moines, most of Tukwila, and all of Shoreline, had Seattle addresses until they incorporated or were annexed, and many people in those cities still use “Seattle” as their mailing address. Do you really think that makes any difference to home buyers? My own experience in the real estate business was that most people cared about the location, not the city, and those who did care about the city cared only because they were concerned about the school district, and most of them wanted to stay out of the Seattle school district.
#3. If it’s your house burning, or your medical emergency, the only thing you care about is response time.
#4. My personal experience, and that of most of the people I have talked to, is that Seattle does not have the same level of interest in crime prevention or response, especially in its outlying neighborhoods. I have been the victim of a car theft, and a car prowl in White Center, and each time a deputy responded to the scene. In Seattle, a car prowl got me a case number, and a residential burglary got an appointment for an officer to come by the following week. Seattle PD has been understaffed for years and is just beginning to catch up on pay and recruiting. Gangs are now making a come back in Seattle (not so much in NH or Burien) since Seattle dropped its gang unit. Anyone who thinks they will get better police protection in Seattle should spend some time reading the papers and paying attention to the complaints that come from the neighborhoods, particularly in the poorer areas on the southern edge of the city.
#5. Seattle is alredy in a crisis. Its budget woes are serious enough that it was mentioned in an article in the Economist within the last couple of months. Seattle already has a huge public debt, and is hurt more than any of its suburban satellites by the current recession. That is without even considering the fact that Boeing (which has kept Seattle afloat) is not so firmly anchored here anymore. Seattle cannot meet all of its current obligations, much less enhance life for anyone else. Do you really want to pay for a tunnel, or whatever, to help northend residents reach their jobs and sports arenas in downtown Seattle and south of downtown?
6. The sad truth is that providing urban services to primarily residential neighborhoods costs more than is returned in taxes by the neighborhood. That is why Seattle refused to even consider annexation until it got a law passed that would give it an additional $5,000,000 per year in state tax revenues if it annexes an area of at least 10,000 people. Burien only gets about $650,000,under the same law, for the present annexation proposal. You tell me who is trying to enhance their revenues.
7. Are you among those people still waiting to see Obama’s real birth certificate? If there was such a tax you could find out about it very easily by calling the City of Burien or looking it up on their website.
8. Lot size matters only if your main interest is in making more money by selling your property for development or developing it yourself. For nearly all improved properties (that is properties that already have a livable house, or other economically valuable structure) minimum lot size makes no difference until lot prices reach the point that it makes sense to demolish good houses to build new ones. What can make a difference is when an area of rental homes, or older homes, is zoned for high density development. When that happens the existing neighborhoods are demolished to make way for new high density development, and the holdouts see their property values drop as the land gains value and the house loses value. If you have accumulated enough land to make it worthwhile, and your goal is to cash in and move on, then annexation to Seattle will make a lot of sense for you. If your goal is to stay in your home and help make your community a good place to live, then you should be more concerned about keeping local control of land use decisions.

Lady K,

re: your #2 about property values, I first suggest you talk with local realtors. What they will no doubt tell you is that the value of any given home depends more on the neighborhood it is in rather than the city. For example, if someone tore down a couple of the smaller two bedroom houses along the north side of Roxbury and built a new 7 bedroom, 6 bath mansion, that mansion would have a lower value than if it was built in Magnolia.

A good example close to White Center as to whether or the neighborhood or the city the house is in is more important is the Seola Beach neighborhood. On west side of Seola Beach Dr. the homes are in the City of Seattle and on the east side of the street the homes are in the City of Burien. If you aren’t familiar with this neighborhood, I suggest you drive through it and look at the homes. After that, then look up the value of all those homes on King County’s parcel viewer
http://www.kingcounty.gov/operations/GIS/PropResearch/ParcelViewer.aspx What you will find is that houses of similar age, quality, and size have similar values. Mr. Ufkes in his voters pamplet statement claimed, “Our Seattle address adds $43,000 to the value of our home.” If that was true, all the houses on the Seattle side of Seola Beach Drive would each have to be worth $43K more than similar houses on the Burien side and that is not the case.

To answer #3,

Taken from Seattle City Police Department web-site it states that Southwest Seattle Police Precinct is posting an increase in Major Crimes for the first four months of 2009 when compared with the same period in 2008. Unlike the other precincts, however, the overall crime rise is being driven more by increases in Property Crimes than by Violent Crimes. Among Property Crimes, both burglaries and larceny/thefts are up, compared to a year ago. Southwest Seattle Police Precinct is also the only precinct posting an increase in vehicle thefts. While Southwest Precinct has relatively fewer Violent Crimes compared to other precincts, increases have been posted in both robberies and aggravated assaults.

Prepared by: The Research, Planning and Information Services Unit
of the King County Sheriff’s Office you will find response times documented in the City of Burien Police Services Reports. What you will also find verified in crime statistics is that we are at a low on all crime and in North Highline too. This additionally was verified from KCSO Deputy Jeff Hancock Thursday night at a NHUAC meeting, our crime stats are at a low. Call him for more info., or once again look on the web-sites, the facts are there. To address customer satisfaction, you can also find that on the web-sites, complaints and praises are available statistically too. I’ve been to many Community Meetings over the years that KCSO has held locally in our community at various places with a lot of different topics including building relationships and partnerships with community members, to hear issues of needs to better serve our community, gang seminars held, helping our community to become organized against crime, and the list goes on. If I felt I had a huge concern with KCSO, I would be at one of those meetings addressing it.

Lady K, now to answer your #1. As Jerry noted, a majority of the Burien City Councilmembers have expressed an interest in annexing the northern portion. However, there are reasons they are not moving in that direction right now, primarily because it would be premature to do so. The obvious one is they want to see how the vote goes in the southern annexation area and, if people vote to annex to Burien, the Burien Councilmembers then have to ensure that the actual annexation is accomplished effectively and effeciently as possible starting this coming spring.

Also, in the legislative session this year a law was passed, SSB5321, which will provide a sales tax rebate in the amount of $5 million a year for 10 years to the city that annexes the northern part of North Highline to help cover the costs of the annexation.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5321&year=2009
This funding does not become available until after July 1, 2011. See page 2, line 25 of the Session Law document so it is wise and fiscally responsible for Burien to wait a year or so.

Lady K, I’m glad you found the responses helpful. I will be sending more answers later today with links, but probably not until evening. We can all learn from each other and, even when we disagree, I think it is important to remain civil.

Lady K, here’s your answer to #7.

There simply is no “recent $25 million downtown fire department tax for Town Square” as Mr. Ufkes claims in the voters’ pamphlet. There was a Fire District 2 (Burien-Normandy Park Fire Department) $25 million bond issue on the Nov. 2008 general election ballot which passed with 66 percent of the vote. This bond will replace the aging fire stations and equipment throughout the fire district. Here is the precise language of that bond issue.
http://your.kingcounty.gov/elections/contests/measureinfo.aspx?cid=31886&eid=1226
As you will note, there is absolutely nothing in this bond measure language about it being for Town Square. In fact, one of the fire stations that will be replaced is the one on Normandy Road which provides fire services to the City of Normandy Park as well as the very south end of Burien such as the Manhattan and Woodside neighborhoods. The other fire station in Dist. 2 is in downtown Burien and has been there for many, many years—they don’t know yet where the new one to replace it will be built, but it will be in downtown core of Burien somewhere. You can read updates on the Burien-Normandy Park FD webpage as to the status and progress. They are currently in the planning phase.

It is also extremely important to note that, if the voters in North Highline vote to annex to Burien, the property owners in the annexation area will not have to pay for this bond measure at all. State law doesn’t allow them to be taxed for this because they weren’t part of Burien (or Fire Dist. 2) when this bond measure passed. Therefore, I have no idea why Mr. Ufkes made this one of his talking points in the voters’ pamphlet because it just isn’t relevant.

Mr. Ufke’s style of debate is of issue. This is how he responded to my rebuttal of his Voters Pamphlet statement:

“Mr. Lamphear’s anger and false statements do not warrant a response, except to remind voters that Lamphear ran for the Burien City Council, served for eight years, and was soundly beaten, did I say soundly? and thrown out of office based in part because of a factual letter sent out to all Burien residents by a Burien resident who too, was treated by his angry outbursts and personal insults. This letter explained how Mr. Lamphear has lived his life and his continuing hypocracy regarding local politics. It ended his political career in Burien, and we all are better off as a result….And Mr. Lamphear, it is my personal opinion that you need counseling.”

Was my original posting ‘angry’? While what he says here is a lie and nothing less than unprecedented character assassination, it continues to be his style of debate.

On the other hand, I know nothing about him personally other than that he has been in my face demanding I stay out of White Center because I live in Burien — that occured while I held elected public office.

Alcina is a good researcher and obviously more patient than either Heidi or I. I appreciate her making this effort and hope more than just one person takes the time to consider her comments.

Marlene I was at the Burien police station this morning and I talked to an officer who was responding the the suspected gun shots on August 6 and he said they have concluded that it was actually firewords at about 115th and 1st SW. I saw fireworks the night before around Bernie Boys. Just so you know, there were 5 units from King County and Burien who responded to the calls. I do not believe Seattle Police Department would have sent 5 units.
I also don’t believe that I could have talked to a Seattle Police Officer at 4:15 in the morning like I did this morning to the Burien Police.

Thank you, Marlene, for coming to my house. I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you. Several of the people who were there want to make a “block watch chart” showing who lives where and how can we get hold of each other. I will be coming around to all the houses in the next week or two to hand out a sheet so people can opt into the plan. It was very nice to meet our neighbors, they are such nice people.